Buyers Remorse???

Steveinid

Member
I posted in another thread about a problem I'm having... compass and gps problem. I may have to send it in and have it fixed. Anyway, it is what it is. But, now that i'm faced with the probability of maybe buying a new one if the fix costs too much (i don't know what it will cost I'm just thinking out loud here) I'm wondering if buying the Phantom 2 Vision was a mistake and maybe I should have bought the Phantom 2 with the go pro. Or another DJI product.

I'm not having buyers remorse about buying a Phantom 2 Vision I'm just wondering if I made the best choice.

Anybody here feel the same and if you could start all over, what would you do knowing what you know now?

Thanks
Steve
 




I have 4 DJI's flying and have no issues with any of them.
I'm not a code writer or computer programer so APM's and Multi Wii's are not an option for me.
My tinkering is limited to motorcycles and my flying is limited to building and flying. The DJI products allow me to do just that.
(I do wish they supported a Tri-Copter. :tennis: )
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
I have 4 DJI's flying and have no issues with any of them.
I'm not a code writer or computer programer so APM's and Multi Wii's are not an option for me.
My tinkering is limited to motorcycles and my flying is limited to building and flying. The DJI products allow me to do just that.
(I do wish they supported a Tri-Copter. :tennis: )

Stitch,

I'm both a motorcycle tinkerer and a multiwii owner, and I can tell you that it's not necessary to be a programmer for the multiwii. Computer comfort is suggested - but it's not as hard as it's made out to be (or maybe once was in the early days).

Im new to the hobby, and worried about the difficulty - but was surprised at how easy it is - and fairly well documented if you're willing to do the research.
 

SoCal Blur

Member
Stitch,

I'm both a motorcycle tinkerer and a multiwii owner, and I can tell you that it's not necessary to be a programmer for the multiwii. Computer comfort is suggested - but it's not as hard as it's made out to be (or maybe once was in the early days).

Im new to the hobby, and worried about the difficulty - but was surprised at how easy it is - and fairly well documented if you're willing to do the research.

I second that. I also am a Motorcycle tinkerer (Suzuki Hayabusa) and found the most difficult part of the multiwii is gathering the information since it doesn't come with instructions. And if you get it from witespy (ready to fly quads) it comes preloaded with the appropriate firmware. The new GUI setup software is pretty nice as well.
 

billrock

New Member
Does your Phantom suddenly become able to hold a spot while hovering and then sort of fly off, but it's not a total 'runaway phantom' ? That happened on mine. You need to reset the compass completely and do an advanced compass calibration. Colin Quinn actually has a demo of the compass reset / advanced calibration on YouTube. You need to throw your compass way out of whack with a magnet first, the then slowly re-calibrate it. It worked on mine just when I was about to buy a replacement compass.
 

SoCal Blur

Member
Does your Phantom suddenly become able to hold a spot while hovering and then sort of fly off, but it's not a total 'runaway phantom' ? That happened on mine. You need to reset the compass completely and do an advanced compass calibration. Colin Quinn actually has a demo of the compass reset / advanced calibration on YouTube. You need to throw your compass way out of whack with a magnet first, the then slowly re-calibrate it. It worked on mine just when I was about to buy a replacement compass.

Is it just me or is there something wrong with a product that you have to go through these kind of 'hoops' just to get it to work properly? Just sayin'
 

deluge2

Member
I suggest resisting the temptation to draw conclusions based upon single forum posts (including my post, for sure). Most people will never need to go through the hoops indicated (magnet & etc.). The best approach is to look into things ones self. In doing so, you may find Colin Guinn's video referenced by 'billrock'. This does indeed describe using a magnet to 'reset' the compass on a Phantom. However it also presents information on how to determine whether such extreme measures are necessary. The most important lesson I've gained from posts on the Phantom (P1, P2, P2v) and on Naza more generally, and from my personal experience (P1, P2) is that *compass* calibration (not GPS calibration) is a good thing. It takes a few seconds and has no downsides.

Only if your Phantom compass won't calibrate or shows unacceptable 'Mod' values when connected to the DJI assistant software, are sterner measures needed. At least Colin's demonstration allows some compass problems to be fixed. Or just replace the compass.

So not withstanding all the legitimate complaints regarding DJI quality control and inadequate customer support, recognize that at least the 'hoops', in some cases, work and are somewhat documented. You can find them and give them a try. And given the number of Phantom's in service, their overall record is probably pretty good. I've certainly had generally good luck so far.

DJI is showing some signs of improving the customer service side of things (eg, Tahoe Ed here and elsewhere; new support operation in LA). Let's hope these translate into improved experience for new and old DJI users alike.

Finally, I can't help but be a impressed with the steady stream of innovations that DJI is bringing to market. Do I wish these were more reliable upon introduction, absolutely! But it's hard to argue that they're not pushing the envelope and keeping costs at least somewhat reasonable. Lots of room for improvement though...lots of room.

Steve

Is it just me or is there something wrong with a product that you have to go through these kind of 'hoops' just to get it to work properly? Just sayin'
 

SoCal Blur

Member
I suggest resisting the temptation to draw conclusions based upon single forum posts (including my post, for sure). Most people will never need to go through the hoops indicated (magnet & etc.). The best approach is to look into things ones self. In doing so, you may find Colin Guinn's video referenced by 'billrock'. This does indeed describe using a magnet to 'reset' the compass on a Phantom. However it also presents information on how to determine whether such extreme measures are necessary. The most important lesson I've gained from posts on the Phantom (P1, P2, P2v) and on Naza more generally, and from my personal experience (P1, P2) is that *compass* calibration (not GPS calibration) is a good thing. It takes a few seconds and has no downsides.

Only if your Phantom compass won't calibrate or shows unacceptable 'Mod' values when connected to the DJI assistant software, are sterner measures needed. At least Colin's demonstration allows some compass problems to be fixed. Or just replace the compass.

So not withstanding all the legitimate complaints regarding DJI quality control and inadequate customer support, recognize that at least the 'hoops', in some cases, work and are somewhat documented. You can find them and give them a try. And given the number of Phantom's in service, their overall record is probably pretty good. I've certainly had generally good luck so far.

DJI is showing some signs of improving the customer service side of things (eg, Tahoe Ed here and elsewhere; new support operation in LA). Let's hope these translate into improved experience for new and old DJI users alike.

Finally, I can't help but be a impressed with the steady stream of innovations that DJI is bringing to market. Do I wish these were more reliable upon introduction, absolutely! But it's hard to argue that they're not pushing the envelope and keeping costs at least somewhat reasonable. Lots of room for improvement though...lots of room.

Steve

I hear what you are saying and respect your position. However, I don't think its drawing unreasonable conculsions when a sitiuation is serious enough and common enough that a company has to put out a video to show people how to get around a problem. You don't see videos like that form Hoverfly, SuperX, etc., so it clearly isn't the norm for this industry/sport.

I give credit to DJI because seeing some of their products got me more interested in multirotors. And, in fact, I almost went with NAZA but I took my time and did some research and decided there were just too many examples of "flyaways" and the "Flip of Death" to ignore... at least for now. I can't believe that all of them are due to people not properly calibrating their compass or GPS.

DJi's A2 FC looks promising and may have solved a lot of issues but time will tell.


Anyway, I was merely making an observation - and I believe about a valid concern.
 
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deluge2

Member
Agreed, flyaway reports are distressing! But it's hard to discuss what's common and what isn't. We see the numerators but the denominators (installed user base) are not clear. We all understand that users with problems are over represented on forums. This is true for anything, cars, computers, operating systems, washing machines. Reading threads makes clear that it is not uncommon for problems to crop up for users who have failed to RTFM. With the number of users that DJI has, I'm somewhat surprised that there aren't more reports of problems.

And the relative lack of solution posts for competing FCs at least in large part reflects their small installed user bases. The entire Hoverfly forum here has only 19 pages of threads and only 6 or so threads have any posts after 1-JAN-2014. So that is a very small ecosystem compared to DJI's. So I don't know how easy it is to figure out what is or isn't the norm for this industry.

If DJI continues their current steps towards a better user experience, the whole field will benefit. DJI users will still get innovative products, but with fewer issues to be sorted out after product launch. And the competition will have to step up their games, or get left behind. And if they can build a better solution at a better price, they will benefit from the already greatly expanded MR user base eager for more capabilities, greater reliability, and better after-the-sale care.

Steve


I hear what you are saying and respect your position. However, I don't think its drawing unreasonable conculsions when a sitiuation is serious enough and common enough that a company has to put out a video to show people how to get around a problem. You don't see videos like that form Hoverfly, SuperX, etc., so it clearly isn't the norm for this industry/sport.

I give credit to DJI because seeing some of their products got me more interested in multirotors. And, in fact, I almost went with NAZA but I took my time and did some research and decided there were just too many examples of "flyaways" and the "Flip of Death" to ignore... at least for now. I can't believe that all of them are due to people not properly calibrating their compass or GPS.

DJi's A2 FC looks promising and may have solved a lot of issues but time will tell.


Anyway, I was merely making an observation - and I believe about a valid concern.
 

MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
I suggest resisting the temptation to draw conclusions based upon single forum posts ...

I agree with everything you say there. DJI IS pushing development and to a far greater degree than anyone else at the moment. They cannot be faulted for their innovation. But, as you say, they really do need to clamp down on their own quality control and make sure their products are ready for market before rushing out the latest innovation, both hardware and software.

I contacted the European DJI centre, headed up by Dave Hollins, about the issues with a brand new S800 EVO and A2 which both arrived faulty, and was appreciative of the quick responses. This does bode well because European and Americans are far more adjusted to the whole customer service ethos than the Chinese - apparently.



And you probably drive a Citroen.... LOL

Very amusing. Opel actually. If you want a reliable car, buy German. What do you drive down there? A tractor?
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
This is a really interesting topic for me. Being so new to the hobby, I quickly recognized DJI as the largest marketing presence, but after only a few days research found countless mentions of 'fly-aways' and poor customer service. These are 2 things that will strike fear in the hearts of a noob like myself. I quickly moved on to other options...

I often hear the argument that dominant sales figures and a majority market share of products in the field cause the inordinate amount of complaints. I just did a search for sales figures, and the first 3 pages came up with nothing for DJI (not surprising being a Chinese company). The only mention I saw for sales figures was from 3DRobotics, who claim to sell 3000 RTF MRs per year, and 300 FCs per month. Even if we assume that DJI is selling far beyond these figures, I still wonder whether it's acceptable for so many people to have these issues. DJI products are not cheap. Even in a tech market as rapidly advancing as this one is, they are expensive enough to reasonably expect to not pay to 'beta test' a product. This technology is new enough that it doesn't seem likely that DJI products were all sound at first, but when popularity and sales rose, they lost some QC.

Deluge also makes a good point that typically the worst cases are represented in forums, while owners seek a solution to negative issues. While this makes sense to me, it may be similar to the auto industry: recalling 100k cars for an unpleasant odor is less dramatic than recalling 50 cars for exploding when the air conditioner is turned on (whether the vehicle is a Citroen or a tractor!). It's understandable that someone reading a post about a quad flying away without control is going to think twice about purchasing that product. It quickly becomes an issue of 'why risk it?', rather than doing the math of 'how many people have NOT had this experience?' Fair or not, for me the stories of people using multiple successful DJI products haven't outweighed the stories of people who lost thousands of dollars to a fly-away.

Couple this with the fact that I have read countless times DJI customer support referred to as "non-existent," and someone like me, new to the hobby, is likely to shy away (or at least research alternatives).

It seems these issues may create a gap in the market for a company who might spend a little more time and energy ensuring that our investments are safe (as safe as can reasonably be expected), and equally or more important, supported!

Just my .02
 

JasonV

Member
I did alot of research before I bought my DJI products. I read all the fly away threads and spent alot of time on social media sites researching my purchase. From what I have seen there is very few legitimate "flyaways". Most problems that people have are found in the manual no one reads and there are a couple people out there that just hate DJI for whatever reason and they spend alot of time saying negative things about the company. I have had no issues with my DJI products and any questions I have had were easily answered between the manual and forums. Some people just need their hands held through every step and I think the vast majority of DJI users are happy with their products.
 

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
It's always good to hear the positive results as well, and I am always happy when the results match yours. I opted for a Multiwii, so I knew there would be no hand holding for me :) But I do know that if I had paid for DJI - both price and size of company would have suggested to me that I could have expected a little hand holding, whether I needed it or not. The fly-aways seem like they can be explained (at least partially), but I have to say - I have heard far less positive feedback about customer support. Why is that? Fortunately, there was someone here who had good results with their local DJI rep.

As far as the "haters," I've read their posts too - and well... there will always be haters. You can spot their agenda a mile away, and it's easy enough to dismiss.

I guess all this is to say (or ask)... I wonder if there is going to be a company that fills the void by offering both quality product and the confidence inspired by decent customer support? Are we asking too much? It sort of gets right to the heart (for me at least) of how I read the original post - he's not remorseful of the purchase, but wonders whether there was a better option out there for him???
 

deluge2

Member
What amazes me is the number of people who just dive right in and start flying MRs without even bothering to read the documentation. I could be wrong, but my sense is that, for better or worse, DJI is selling *way* more than any of its competitors. Further, they're the first with kits that don't *require* assembly from scratch and lot's of technical skills to get into the air. Even though I'm handy with a computer, soldering iron, and digital multimeter, it was the Phantom with Zen H3-2D that got me into this hobby. To some hardcore MR hobbyists, the Phantom is a toy. But the inaccuracy of that view is obvious from the thousands of posted videos taken with P1 and now P2 setups. This gives DJI access to creating and serving a portion of the MR market that is not yet ready for much of DJI's competition. The great unwashed masses who just charge the battery and go out and fly, for better or worse.

I think the user profile for the 'typical' DJI customer includes the entire spectrum of experience/skill, while the alternatives are heavily skewed to more technically experienced users, even if they are new to RC or MRs. This, combined with smaller absolute numbers at least partly explains the smaller number of problem posts for alternative FCs. If you do look, you will find problems with all of the platforms. As experienced pilots have noted, sooner or later everything crashes.

Careful review of DJI's history of real problems shows that there are actually a number of separate issues that tend to get confused and conflated leaving a very real sense of serious problems. For example posts refer to the FOD (flip of death) in relation to DJI FCs generally, failing to realize that these were specific problems due to FW issues with early batches of GPS/compass modules. There are also separate issues related to airframes (f450/550, s800, s800 EVO) vs. FCs (Naza, WKM, A2) vs. firmware (FW versions with specific issues). But there are also a large number of satisfied users who post to that effect (like me). Flyaways are scary, but some have clear causes that are not related to FC problems per se.

I learned from diving and underwater photography and videography that the single largest factor in reducing the likelihood of disaster is personal responsibility. RTFM. Peruse the forums. Maintain your equipment, use common sense, be cautious.

Sadly, this will not protect you from defective or faulty equipment. DJI *appears* to be recognizing that to maintain some semblance of market leadership, particularly among sophisticated users, they have to improve quality control and customer service. Time will tell if they are really seeing the light on this critical point.

Still I'm encouraged when even MombasaFlash, with his documented 'bad luck' with DJI QC problems, sees some concrete evidence of improvement...

Steve

This is a really interesting topic for me. Being so new to the hobby, I quickly recognized DJI as the largest marketing presence, but after only a few days research found countless mentions of 'fly-aways' and poor customer service. These are 2 things that will strike fear in the hearts of a noob like myself. I quickly moved on to other options...

I often hear the argument that dominant sales figures and a majority market share of products in the field cause the inordinate amount of complaints. I just did a search for sales figures, and the first 3 pages came up with nothing for DJI (not surprising being a Chinese company). The only mention I saw for sales figures was from 3DRobotics, who claim to sell 3000 RTF MRs per year, and 300 FCs per month. Even if we assume that DJI is selling far beyond these figures, I still wonder whether it's acceptable for so many people to have these issues. DJI products are not cheap. Even in a tech market as rapidly advancing as this one is, they are expensive enough to reasonably expect to not pay to 'beta test' a product. This technology is new enough that it doesn't seem likely that DJI products were all sound at first, but when popularity and sales rose, they lost some QC.

Deluge also makes a good point that typically the worst cases are represented in forums, while owners seek a solution to negative issues. While this makes sense to me, it may be similar to the auto industry: recalling 100k cars for an unpleasant odor is less dramatic than recalling 50 cars for exploding when the air conditioner is turned on (whether the vehicle is a Citroen or a tractor!). It's understandable that someone reading a post about a quad flying away without control is going to think twice about purchasing that product. It quickly becomes an issue of 'why risk it?', rather than doing the math of 'how many people have NOT had this experience?' Fair or not, for me the stories of people using multiple successful DJI products haven't outweighed the stories of people who lost thousands of dollars to a fly-away.

Couple this with the fact that I have read countless times DJI customer support referred to as "non-existent," and someone like me, new to the hobby, is likely to shy away (or at least research alternatives).

It seems these issues may create a gap in the market for a company who might spend a little more time and energy ensuring that our investments are safe (as safe as can reasonably be expected), and equally or more important, supported!

Just my .02
 

cootertwo

Member
Hoverfly, SuperX, etc. "Wish" they had the number of sales that DJI has made, world wide. Ask yourself this question. How many people do you know with a DJI product of some kind? How many with any other manufacturer? This whole multi-rotor thing is still expanding rapidly. Almost like the Hula Hoop. And yes, I'm an old fart! Like has been said many times before, the more of a product that is in use by the general public, the more "likes" and "dislikes" there will be. Oh, here's a good one, go to "YouTube", and do a search for "DJI", see how many hits you get, then do the same for Hoverfly, SuperX, etc. etc.
 
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The Chinese have marketing down to an exact science. It's the Customer Service that they suck at.DJI is at the top of that list.I will say there is one company that has surprised me and it is Banggood. I have bought several thing from them and if damaged or I was displeased, they refunded or replaced immediately with no questions.
It may leave them open to getting ripped off by the unscrupulous but I trust them with my purchases.
 

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