2014 - best ESC at the moment?

[Silverburn]

Hi all,

I'm upgrading my workhorse to version 1.2 soon, and the big step will be the change from quad to hex. For my pay loader project I need to be able have normal flight characteristics with 2kg of load.

This will mean 6 x tmotor 3508-29's and 14" props. 6S.

I would normally re-use my t-motor 30A opto pros - they're light, fit inside the frame (they're the same size as 4S units) and given good service. But they're installed on another quad. And stock issues and price means I can't get them. But perhaps there are better options? The criteria is:

- 6S, 30a
- no Simonk (big motors and autotune)
- small and light.
- ideally the barrels are not hard soldered.
- ideally be OPTO, but am flexible.
- not turnigy multistars (too big)
- must work well with big motors
- very reliable when run in 6S

So, in 2014, what are the recommendations? Maytech? Stick with t-motor?

 

[Bartman]

personally i like the MN4012-400 better for 14" props but I'd have to add that I haven't tried the 3508 motors. the MT4008-18 motor is also a personal fav. of mine.

if the 3508's are standard 12 pole motors then just about any ESC will work. i'm pretty sure the tiger 30A opto's are repackaged Hobbywing Platinum Pro ESC's, also 30A Opto. I actually use the 40A Platinum Pro ESC's as I like that they have two capacitors instead of one. sometimes I peel back the heatshrink and soldeer right to the ESC's, sometimes I use the wires they provide but usually not for the motor outputs side.

 

[kloner]

I only fly maytec's these days but am going to try the tmotor 12s series soon. the new thing in esc's is the 12s capability even if you only use it to 8, 10 or 12s. it's the future of lifting. same with this years autopilots, suppose to get compatiblity so all the sensors and crap tell you real numbers on osd's, etc.

2kg isn't too bad to lift. 6s will do it happy. I tried pancake motors once, they werent compatible with the esc's and went away faster than they came in. all the u series stuff is really nice motor wise. Super efficient, the u5 would slide right in and perform nice for your build. way better bearings so you'll fly more and diagnose less

 

[Bartman]

what are the U's using Steve that makes them way better? the MN 4012 use a 5mm motor shaft and larger diameter bearings than the MT35's, what's in the U motors?

I understand the KDE motors use Abec 3's and 7's if I remember correctly, I think the T-motor bearings are 3's.

edit...looking through their site i see the U11 motors are using a hollow shaft (15mm OD) but they're also rated at up to 12S....need to do more reading sometime.

 

[kloner]

these all use a new shaft design, uses a smaller shaft with the same size outter area for bearings letting the balls be bigger, the windings are alot cleaner, more efficient. I'm stoked on the new series. right now u5 and u7 are airborne, u11 is still on the bench with recall issues

 

[R_Lefebvre]

How are you guys determining which ESC is better than another? Seems to me like most of them on the market are practically identical with no innovation at all. Most run a really slow 8-bit Atmega processor which is why they're limited to 16 MHz PWM rate. Seems the only way to tell one from another is the quality of the FETs?

I'm actually really interested in the UltraESC. It's a clean sheet design with a 32-bit processor. It does active freewheeling, which should be important for multirotor guys but nobody seems to even know about it? Also can talk I2C with the flight controller so we can move away from this ancient PWM silliness. Most importantly will allow bi-directional communication with the Flight Controller.

We really need to be pushing for better ESC's instead of buying the same crap over and over. It's 2014, can we let go of PWM?

same with this years autopilots, suppose to get compatiblity so all the sensors and crap tell you real numbers on osd's, etc.

What's that about? Your Flight Controller can't give you numbers on the OSD?

the MN 4012 use a 5mm motor shaft and larger diameter bearings than the MT35's, what's in the U motors?

You mean the "Abnormal Shaft Shape Design to Avoiding Loose"? :highly_amused:

I'm curious what's going on there. It's not obvious that the shaft is bigger than normal, or that it's using different bearings from normal. The U5 shows a 4mm shaft only. Kinda small for a motor that big, IMO. I think they just got rid of the C-clip retainer and use some kind of screw fixing.

 

[jes1111]

Could be that the U-series shaft design incorporates an arrangement to preload the bearings? - least that's what I'm hoping.

UltraESC only goes to 4S, ESC32 to 5S

 

[Bartman]

the one motor has the 15mm shaft, the rest look to be similar to what they've done in the past although i didn't study each and every model.

fwiw, regarding ESC's, it's not new technology, they've been around a while and they work fine. the promises of new ESC's with advanced features all sound good and I'll try them when they're ready but right now, if you want to fly and get back to work, the current crop is perfectly adequate. While they all do appear to function identically to each other, preferences do win out over price so I'm flying Hobbywing (granted not high priced) and Tiger (nearly identical inside, don't know about firmware).

i've been itching to try the new Mikrokopter BL 3.0 release but what's the point if I end up moving towards a Zenmuse gimbal?

with all of the time that has passed it's amazing that there still remains no clear choice in any of this!

 

[kloner]

I ran 3520's for a year on 4 rigs, all 6s, all different motor counts. they all performed alright but sneazing near em would cause a bearing failure. I was getting a decent price on em so just replaced as one would go out and at the end of the year i went through 13 motors. I'm praying the lifters are gonna get a pretty big lift with the increase in size. What i was carrying reds with last year was 13 lbs with 8 of the 3520, flew a red for 6 minutes safely but would run up to the 70% average throttle, would stress doing it, looked smooth but it was overloading. now with 6 of the u7 i take off 4 lbs lighter and have 25% more thrust on a motor that is 60mm around..... so yea, even bigger bearings and the same sealed shaft like avroto is doing.

We fly 5-15 days a month, i tend to trend my tastes towards what works and what doesn't. I like plush non simonK too but there massive. in maytec you get a small reliable esc that'll run and run and run. i have lost one, on a maiden, swapped it and never seen that again. Also being simonK and opto, plug and play

lefebvre, were getting a pile of pixhawks for a science project. I'm gonna pick your brain here shortly..... it's complicated

 

[kloner]

heres that whimpy 4mm shaft on at this level small motor View attachment 16200

looks like 8mm going into the top. u7 looks the same. There like pancake motors with a ton of top and bottom stuff. cooling i guess. very vibration free out of the box. i had alot of 3520 come out of the wrapper just not up to par.

 

[Motopreserve]

I know all you guys are talking about far more advanced craft than I'm building - I'm a noob at all this but very curious about the ESC question. The difference of quality motors makes sense to me. I understand that some companies may have better QC, more solid prop shafts and better bearings. Quality props were probably the most obvious lesson for me. But with ESCs I am unfamiliar with the inner workings, so I'm in the dark.

It seems you guys agree that ESCs are fairly similar in technology (maybe a few internal parts are different?). So are your choices being made by personal experience alone - and using what you've been successful with in the past? Or are some companies (Maytec, T-Motor, etc) actually using higher quality components vs the cheaper companies (HobbyKing, Turnigy etc)?

Thanks for any light you can shed on this.

Scott

 

[kloner]

probably the biggest factor as of the last year is me running 6s on everything and there not being alot of options. i ran the ipeaka esc's for a long time, never an issue, they max out at 4s..... plush are a decent 6s choice, they tend to be smooth flying, do 6s but are really big and without simonK can't cover every situation. with something like maytecs, i got a small form, easy to get, work out of the box without using any programers, have fired every motor i've ever tried (not all esc's can say that) but the cheap esc's work well. I run them in everything from lifters that carry 20 lbs to discos that cary themselves..... In heavy lifters esc's are a pretty touchy thing hence why all those power boards sell so well if compatibility isn't a problem. I've logged hundreds of hours carrying over 10lbs payloads and never seen a crash or even issue other than noise floor for scientific sensors..... and it never crashed me..... batteries and motors, not so much....

 

[Motopreserve]

Thanks so much Kloner.

When you talk about "cheap" ESCs, you mean the Maytec? Currently I am running just HK F30-A that I flashed with SimonK. I chose super cheap because the whole first (training) quad was cheap, and it allowed me to buy extras 'just in case.'

But like most folks that get sucked into this hobby, I am already looking toward future builds - and quality ESCs would be a concern, as well as better motors etc. I guess the thing that makes it easier for me is that I'm not looking to need anything higher than 4S.... famous last words

 

[kloner]

the hobbyking are really good, just not as diverse..... aren't they 4s max? it's been a while since i've shopped on the cheap, we try creating masterpieces and price quit judging my shopping choices. i'm building a turbine vario camera ship, a huge multi capable of 32 horsepower,,,,, maytec esc's started looking like a good value but yea, i'm skewed, i mean screwed up in the head

 

[Motopreserve]

They definitely top out at 4S. So I may be fine with these for now. I never tried them prior to flashing them with SimonK, but they have seemed solid to me so far.

Im nowhere near needing the type of HP you require. So I'll stick with these for now and see if I stumble on a deal in the future for another brand that I might experiment with.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

i'm building a turbine vario camera ship,

You're building a turbine powered helicopter? Or do I misread this?

I know all you guys are talking about far more advanced craft than I'm building - I'm a noob at all this but very curious about the ESC question. The difference of quality motors makes sense to me. I understand that some companies may have better QC, more solid prop shafts and better bearings. Quality props were probably the most obvious lesson for me. But with ESCs I am unfamiliar with the inner workings, so I'm in the dark.

It seems you guys agree that ESCs are fairly similar in technology (maybe a few internal parts are different?). So are your choices being made by personal experience alone - and using what you've been successful with in the past? Or are some companies (Maytec, T-Motor, etc) actually using higher quality components vs the cheaper companies (HobbyKing, Turnigy etc)?

Thanks for any light you can shed on this.

Scott

IMO, they're all pretty much the same thing, and the only way to differentiate them is the quality of the components, and the quality of the manufacture. These things are pretty un-knowable, even for experienced guys let alone new guys. Because even if a FET has a good brand name, you never know if it's a knock-off coming from China.

I'm actually using the HobbyWing Quattro ESC's, because I like the form factor. No need for a PDB, less total weight, etc.

But I had one fail on power up and smoke a motor, so my confidence is a bit shaken... Maybe just bad luck, I dunno. HobbyWing normally has a good reputation for a low-cost ESC.

 

[kloner]

you bet, Jakadofsky on a custom frame. I'm an hour and a half from hollywood........ let your imagination run wild, it's probably on the right track

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Huh, interesting. I'd like to keep track of that project.

 

[kloner]

we took on a few 3dr project so my instinct says i may get to know ya better whether we want to or not.... hahah... j/k, your know your apm and we need to learn it fast. I'll be in touch soon

 

[Silverburn]

I went with the 30A Hobbywing platinums in the "A" format (ie bullets are on cables, not soldered to the board); around the right size, 6S, and supposedly a rip off for the t-motors. Cheaper too (but not by much, since the t-motors are down to $24). Lets see how they do.