Hoverfly 1st Build 1st Flights

[jfro]

She Flies! My first build and my first flight!


After a whole lot of reading, asking, and parts buying, my X8 or XY8 flew. She treated this inexperienced pilot pretty good today. Got in about ½ hr of total flying time on 7 batteries charges. Wind around 10 mph.


Mostly hoover in a back yard that's about ¾ or less of an acrea. . Going slow, getting tuned and getting my feet wet. Snow just melted so ground was soft. Broke two lower props today, both on the bottom from landing two quick. Would have been worse on a hard surface.


I'm going to use this thread to ask my next 20 questions. I do not have a permanent battery mount yet nor have I decided on the gimble. It it looks like I'm probably going to spring for an alexmos and a gimble for a gh2.


So far, here's what I got.
34” or 863mm motor spindle to spindle.
1” carbon arms
8” center plates w/ plastic dome.
8 – Avroto 2814, 4x2 coaxial style.
30 Amp Turnigy Plush
Currently using 5000mAh 4s batters (have for but just mounting 1 for right now).
Hoverfly Pro (black board).
Futaba 8fg.
Gimble to come, most likely the Alexmos controller w/ ????


Now, for a some random questions that popped up today.


1. Gain on channel 5. Can I change the main gain on my radio between flights without disconnecting the x8 battery or shutting down the radio. Right now I'm at 40 on channel 5.

1. Since I'm in the learning/training mode, the XY8 will not be more than tree top high and no more than 100 yards or so out. What is a reasonable setting on my voltage alarm on the 5000 mAh batteries? On my last flight today, when the batter alarm went off, I hovered at eye level to see how long I had. It was less than 20 seconds before I couldn't hold altitude anymore.
   1. Observation. Gonna take a while to decipher between the armed beeping from the HFP beeping and the low voltage beeping..
2. My flight times today were quite a bit under what I expected. 5 mins on 5000 mAh 4s. Copter weighs 2.4 lbs without battery (and no gimble or camera). I'm sure the Gemfan Carbon Reinforced 11x4.7 CW/CCW Pair props I'm using aren't the most efficient, but I picked them for my learning period as I'm assuming I'll break a few.
   1. Are there some other settings that would effect flying time I should be playing with?
3. I have my radio on the back of the plate under a clear plastic dome cover.
   1. How do you position and attach the 2 wire (antennas?) which are about 4-5 “ long?
      1. Right now I have one going somewhat vertical towards the back top of the dome and the other is going the opposite way (lower left) but not as up/down as the right side one.
4. After flying and removing battery, which is warm at this point, do you wait for it too cool down before charging again? How warm can the battery be to safely recharge? For right now I'm charging at 15 amps which is about a 20 minute charge time when flying. 10 amps when I'm not in a hurry.
   1. I rate temperature this way.
      1. Too hot to hold
      2. Hot, but can hold it
      3. warm, but not uncomfortable
      4. Slightly warm, can put on the cheeks of a baby without upsetting him/her.
      5. Cold, room temp.
5. I've attached 4 minutes of my last 3 flights today. I've only adjusted the main gains so far. I left in a couple landing tip overs which didn't cause any damage because the ground is soft from the winter snow melting. I broke a couple lower props earlier on my first couple flights when I wasn't filming.

ps. flew by myself today. Less embarrassing. Loaded up my helmet cam for the last 3 flights and put 4 minutes up on you tube. Please feel free to give any comments about what you see that can be improved..... Just remember, this was my first day of flying and I was just trying to get a feel for it. Quit tuning the gain after it started lifting off pretty smoothly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDMsNTDbzMk

 

[Webheadfred]

Looks like a good first flight!

Gain on channel 5. Can I change the main gain on my radio between flights without disconnecting the x8 battery or shutting down the radio. Right now I'm at 40 on channel 5.

Yes. I land, disarm, double click on the linkage button on the radio, go to endpoint and adjust the gain. Re-arm and lift off. Keep bumping it 5 points at a time until it starts to shudder with your inputs. Land and back down 5 points or just until it stops. Set the auto level gain to the same.

Observation. Gonna take a while to decipher between the armed beeping from the HFP beeping and the low voltage beeping..

Agreed. I like the beeping when it's armed. I try to listen to the arm and dis-arm beep but as long as it's silent when it's dis-armed, I'm ok with it. I don't have a voltage alarm. I strictly use the timer. I'm getting 5.5 minutes with about 5 pounds on a 4S 5000mha battery. My battery is warm and I just put it back on the charger.

How do you position and attach the 2 wire (antennas?) which are about 4-5 “ long?
Right now I have one going somewhat vertical towards the back top of the dome and the other is going the opposite way (lower left) but not as up/down as the right side one.

Ideally, I suppose you should have one wire horizontal and one vertical. I use a little stir straw and put the wire through it. A little tape will hold it where you want it.

I broke many props first out. I learned that if it hits under power, it'll break. I learned quickly to kill power in an uncontrolled landing. It'll save a prop. I haven't broken one in a year now. *knock wood*

I also learned a little about curves and have a Yaw, Pitch, and Roll curve assigned to a switch. I have three settings, Normal, Medium and Very Soft. This will soften the input and make it, at least for me, a little easier to handle. I normally fly in medium setting and switch to normal if it's windy and I'm using AL. I have a throttle curve set as well but I don't use it. I found with a nice curve, it was easier to control altitude manually. AH is so good now, I don't use it. I've learned to use the standard throttle and minute touch to control soft landings on a deck.

Really nice first attempt!

 

[jfro]

Webheadfred. Thanks for the reply. Straw sounds like a great idea!

What do you mean by shudder?
Are you saying to put the gains that I end up with into the alt hold and alt levels? (right now I'm at 40)

I'm 2.65 lbs with 1 battery. I would think I'd get over 5 minutes on this load. I'll be around 5.5-6 lbs with 2 batteries, gimble and camera. I was hoping for 12+ minutes with 2 batteries.
My alarm goes off at 3.3v. From what I've read tonight, that's a pretty good number to beep at and should give about 30 seconds to get down. Problem is it's so close to the HFP beep, I'm not exactly sure I'm always going to know exactly when it starts. Fun stuff.

Curves for yaw, pitch, and roll. Is this in the Futaba manual? Any other suggestions ? Google?

Again, thanks for your help.

 

[BOEING747]

I used 5000 Mah 30C batteries on my Y6 and they got very hot ! Switched to 5000 Mah 65-130C battery and after 9 min flying they are not even warm. The higher the " C " rating the cooler the batteries stay !

 

[Webheadfred]

Curves for yaw, pitch, and roll. Is this in the Futaba manual? Any other suggestions ? Google?

Yeah... I may be calling it the wrong thing but basically out of the box, the sticks are linear, with full up being +100 and full down being -100 (or whatever your endpoints are). By putting in a curve, you flatten or desensitize the center on the right stick pitch and roll. This way, for me at least, made my nervous inputs, a little more forgiving as bigger movements in the stick are minimized, thus easier to control. I have it on a three way switch and down is normal, middle some curve, up more curve. I've got to the point where I just fly it in the middle and don't touch it. I can switch it off and every minute movement is seen in the flight.

If you step up the gain gradually, you'll get to the point where the x8, after you lift off, will 'twitch' so-to-speak as the sensors are hyper-adjusting. You'll be able to control the craft, but you'll see it. At this point, land and back down the gain 5 points, lift off and observe. Repeat to the point where the twitchyness stops. This will be the optimal point for the sensors and your configuration. Higher or lower compared multi to multi is meaningless. Higher or lower is neither better or worse. It's a function of the arm length, prop size and pitch, voltage to the motors, weights, flex, etc. My X8 is similar (well it used to be) 41" MTM, 5 pounds or so, avroto 2814's and 11x47 props. My gain in the 8FG super was 91 on main and autolevel. On altitude hold I put it to 100 on the new firmware. AH is perfect in my opinion on the 4.8 firmware.

The Futaba manual is confusing and difficult for me to decipher especially since I had no RC experience. I muddled through it looking at the SERVO screen with each change to be sure I was getting what I thought. I'm at work until 14ET and I could take some pics of my screens if you're interested but I can't get them online till this afternoon. There are some help through Google of course and some users put screen shots up. Just search Google for 8FG and pitch curves or expo and see what you get...

 

[jfro]

I took a quick look at making the curves. Started to try and then quit as I got nervous about doing it on my own. I had a chance for two quick flights before I had to take care of other business, so I bailed and flew.

Set the gains up, up, and up. Still haven't made it twitch. at 85 right now. It's windier today and it flew pretty good, so I'm going to give gains a rest for a week. Getting a camera gimble in sometime in next 3-5 days, so will wait to mount that before any more tuning. I'm moving along faster than anticipated.

Would like to work on the curves. Any help / guidance is appreciated. I'm done for the day, but will take a look later tonight for any advice....

Tried 2 new batteries today. Still the same short flight time. I'm using 5000 mAh 4s batteries and getting well under 5 minute air time with about 3.6-3.7 lbs total. Seems odd to me, but maybe it's something I'm just not seeing. Will test soon without the voltage alarms, although I can't imagine they have anything to do with it.

Weekend weather report is pretty favorable right now, hopefully can get a lot of flight time in. Just need to go find some open space and make my controls a little less sensitive. Curves are my new mission this week!

 

[Webheadfred]

You know... This is how new I am to RC. I've been calling them curves... It's Dual Rate. Here are some pictures of my setup you can use....

The first three are the dual rate for the aileron, the next three are for the elevator, and the next two are for the rudder. Notice on the rudder, it only is affected by the last position of the switch. My thinking here was that if I needed VERY smooth movement, I'd flip the switch to position three and it would include a yaw (rudder) curve for smoother rotation. I've found I don't use this much. Notice I'm using the SC switch right above the right stick. Also notice with the switch down (position 1), everything is linear like out of the box. You can see the little arrow at the bottom in position two and three. Also note, on the rudder, the little arrow points to 2, but the first position and the second position don't affect the rate. Only with the switch all the way up (I call position 3) does that even come in to play. I don't know why as I'm a rookie. You may not even want to mess with that.

Next three are the throttle curve... Notice that it's on the SB switch right above the throttle... in position one (all the way down), it's simply linear. I found it difficult at first to keep altitude, so I would take off normally and get near a hover, switch the switch to middle position and get a flatter response from the stick. I found it MUCH easier to maintain a specific altitude this way. I have the T8FG as I thought I may at some time fly airplanes. It has the detents on the throttle unlike the 8FG which is smooth (I think). I have gotten to the point where I can get it between clicks and manage the altitude that way. I find I don't use it much anymore but it did help me when I first started flying. Be careful about placing all switches to down as you'll get a surprise if you keep it in the middle and lift off. It'll rise faster than expected until you get to the middle range. Also not that on the last position (all the way up) the bottom end doesn't even make it to zero. You do get a real flat response in the middle but may not be able to land. I don't use that one much either but it helped at first.

The last 4 pictures are my "three position switch acting as a two position switch" for auto level purposes and altitude hold purposes. The first three are the points and the last is the second page.

In all these, I just mucked around until I figured it out and verified it with the Servo Screen.

On another note, I have the gain trim set to a knob which I used in flight to adjust the gain 'on the fly' it worked pretty good and I landed and noted from the servo screen the value with the trim mixed in. I then set this value to the main gain endpoint and it worked perfectly. It was hard at first knobbing around and keeping the craft in the air. Do what works for you...

In any case, I hope this helped a little... Have fun.

 

[jfro]

Webheadfred.

Thanks for the Pics. That helps a lot. I think I've finally got my radio set pretty much the same. On the 2 position switches, I've had mine set to down, as off, and middle and up positions as on.

I'm wondering if I take and make a copy of these settings, then go back and set reverse to normal, if I might be able to use this on my simulator and see how it feels. I'm assuming it would work. Any chance you've tried it.

Before I started this tonight, I tried saving my settings to an sd card. Tried 2 different cards and the 8fg didn't recognize either one of them, but my computers do. Gonna have to chase that one down. Says it turn off radio, insert card, turn on radio, and it will ask to format card. Doesn't happen. It then says it will show up on LCD screen to show card has been inserted.

It's a lot to absorb. I'm a little leery of the top position, esp for throttle and elevator. Have to think about that. it's late and I'm fried, so I'll pick this up sometime tomorrow and hopefully get in a flight or 2 in the next 48 hours. Weather is trying it's best to be winter again around her for a day or two. Yuck.

Expecting camera gimble here late in the week or next monday. fun stuff! Once that's on, I need to find a permanent and doubling up of battery mounts. Still haven't figure that out, but wanted to wait untill I saw what I was going to do with the camera mount.



Thanks again. You have been very helpful.

 

[Webheadfred]

I haven't tried saving anything to an SD card yet. Probably should... But... The newer fast SD cards only work in devices designed to take them. I know one of my cameras won't recognize the 32g SD card I use in my GoPro. That may be the issue there. Try a slow plain 1g SD card and see if that works.

Yeah.. On that 3 position switch.... Looking at the graph, it's look odd... But think of the switch as a stick that only has a full down, a middle and a full up, and then look at the zigzag line. Left side (full down) is zero or off. Moving to the right on the graph at position 2 you'll see a zero but since our switch doesn't hit that, it doesn't take effect. Further right on the graph, position 3 is out switches middle position and the value is 100 or on. Position 4 not used and position 5 would be the switch full up position and again 100 or on. So either position, middle or up, would engage Auto Level and I don't need to worry which one. Full down is off. Either is on.

Have fun.

 

[jfro]

For the 3 position switches, I have 0, 100, 100. Which means down is off, middle and up is on.

The manual says 2gb or less. I had to do some digging to find some old sd cards. I tried a 512mb card and a 2gb card. Thinking it's operator error, (not sd card) or faulty card reader.... Biggest worry is that's how you update the firmware. Not sure if it's the only way, but if it is, I'm going to have to send it in to get fixed.

Bad weather today and tomorrow, doubtful I'll get to try new radio settings. Wish spring would friggin come and stay.

 

[Benjamin Rowland]

I've tried putting my throttle curves on a switch and the switch seems to have no effect. It just stays in throttle curve #1. Any advice for me?
thanks,
Ben

 

[Webheadfred]

Hey Ben... I'll take a look at my radio when I get home about 3. I think you have the 8fg super like I do. I have mine in a switch and it works fine... I'll get back to you.

 

[jfro]

Look at 3/27/13 post on first page of this thread....

His explanation and photo's are all you need to do. I just went a flew a quick battery in my back yard and turned on the throttle curve, and it works. I also verified it on the radio under servo. You can see the numbers on the marks...

Here is his 15 jpegs in one file, it was easier for me to read...

Thanks again Webheadfred... You went beyond the call of duty for helping...

from Webheadfred:
The first three are the dual rate for the aileron, the next three are for the elevator, and the next two are for the rudder. Notice on the rudder, it only is affected by the last position of the switch. My thinking here was that if I needed VERY smooth movement, I'd flip the switch to position three and it would include a yaw (rudder) curve for smoother rotation. I've found I don't use this much. Notice I'm using the SC switch right above the right stick. Also notice with the switch down (position 1), everything is linear like out of the box. You can see the little arrow at the bottom in position two and three. Also note, on the rudder, the little arrow points to 2, but the first position and the second position don't affect the rate. Only with the switch all the way up (I call position 3) does that even come in to play. I don't know why as I'm a rookie. You may not even want to mess with that.

Next three are the throttle curve... Notice that it's on the SB switch right above the throttle... in position one (all the way down), it's simply linear. I found it difficult at first to keep altitude, so I would take off normally and get near a hover, switch the switch to middle position and get a flatter response from the stick. I found it MUCH easier to maintain a specific altitude this way. I have the T8FG as I thought I may at some time fly airplanes. It has the detents on the throttle unlike the 8FG which is smooth (I think). I have gotten to the point where I can get it between clicks and manage the altitude that way. I find I don't use it much anymore but it did help me when I first started flying. Be careful about placing all switches to down as you'll get a surprise if you keep it in the middle and lift off. It'll rise faster than expected until you get to the middle range. Also not that on the last position (all the way up) the bottom end doesn't even make it to zero. You do get a real flat response in the middle but may not be able to land. I don't use that one much either but it helped at first.

The last 4 pictures are my "three position switch acting as a two position switch" for auto level purposes and altitude hold purposes. The first three are the points and the last is the second page.

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