pricing help

[dckiteboards]

I have been getting alot of interest doing aerial work, hotels ,resorts etc.

and recently i just booked a very large aerial job shooting for a 300acre development
including flash website,interactive trail maps, timelapses of miles of hiking trails, also for all four seasons to show the property to perspective home buyers during all four seasons. now obviously i could try and shoot with the x650 x8 which is what i have and do ok with or just buy i bigger rig, ie Cinestar6 or 8.

im trying to set pricing for this sort of thing. this is pricing i could find out of auckland!

I know with the x650 x8 I dont think i would charge all that much , also i dont want to sell myself short NOT too many people can do this! so pricing should be according.
I shot this with my rig and can do it again.

I am done with the gopro however i am working on a longer showreel now using the t2i. im maxed out now on weight though with the little rig. I wanted to get a downlink on it and a three axis mount and now thats not happening. due to weight!

virtuoso media,

Aerial HD Video Pricing:
Hourly - $550/hr
Half Day – 4hrs $1500
Full Day – 8hrs $2500

Aerial video includes:
HD Helicam, Pilot & camera operator. Downlink viewing for the director.
Camera: Canon 550D
Also includes on site file transfer.

Thank you ahead of time!

 

[Bartman]

what is the pricing that you quoted for virtuoso media? is that you or something you found on the web?

 

[dckiteboards]

yeah from NZ

 

[Stacky]

Just remember the difference between $NZ and $US. Virtuoso media do some very high end work, much of it isnt yet on their website. They use big RC Heli's most of the time, Im not even sure if they have a multirotor yet but Im sure they will be looking at them. They shoot for TV advertising and movies mostly these days and on a typical shoot can have up to 5 people involved as part of their crew. On top of that they run a big media suite that has all the bells and whistles producers and directors could hope to use. They are an extremely professional and high quality company. I have watched them shooting a tv commercial and it was a big operation that day. I just checked their current showreel on their website and know that there is a bunch of new very very high quality film and advertising work not included.
So with respect to their prices just be aware that they work at the top end.
Cheers
Mike

 

[jes1111]

I believe (very strongly) that you are approaching this problem from the wrong end. Basing your charges on what someone else is charging is just "wrong", on so many levels. IMHO any photographer (stills or video) should calculate the actual "cost of doing business", set an expected (or at least desired) income level and use those figures to work out what you need to charge clients.

Here's an appropriate calculator.

 

[DucktileMedia]

Yes but at the same time one has to consider what the market will bear. I offered some architects a discount o get started and he told me not to do that as the normal photographer they hired charged $1000/day and i should be at least on par with that. but it does depend a lot on confidence and what you are doing. Obviously getting good video is WAY harder than snapping a crap load of photos and taking a few good ones out of the batch.

 

[Stacky]

Jes1111's advice is first class and the link is exactly what everyone in business should be thinking about.

The other issue revolves around what the market will bear. The problem here is that one needs to also consider what you want to earn. If you go through the calculations and find what you should be charging with respect to what you wish to earn is too much higher than what the market will bear then possibly you might need to reconsider if its worth doing.

A well renowned English photographer I assisted many years ago told me he would rather go bankrupt or quit trying to charge what he believed he was worth rather than just eek out a living charging what people wanted to pay him. On one level that sounds crazy but what you charge if you wish to do it for a living needs to be sustainable and realistic. If the market wont bear the fees you need to charge to earn a fair and reasonable living then you need to find a new market for your services or consider that its not worth trying to make a living out of.

One thought on the calculator in jes111' link is that it has as a default 100 days per year chargeable time. From 21 years experience I know that 100 full days chargeable time only happens in good years and that in reality during tough times that number will drop considerably. Most work is half days or a few hours here and there. Currently I am working through the toughest year I have seen in a decade. Its just started to pick up and I have for September already got 6 full days shooting booked. Most of this year has been made up of half days and short 1 or 2 hour jobs. So far this year I have only had about 30 full day shoots. Your architects advice is also good advice, its hard to increase prices to a client once you have set a trend.

Your single biggest asset with respect to the fee you wish to charge is your portfolio. That coupled with the calculators indication of what you wish to earn will help you a lot.

The portfolio aspect, approaching ad agencies, design companies and direct company approach is a great discussion in itself.

Yes but at the same time one has to consider what the market will bear. I offered some architects a discount o get started and he told me not to do that as the normal photographer they hired charged $1000/day and i should be at least on par with that. but it does depend a lot on confidence and what you are doing. Obviously getting good video is WAY harder than snapping a crap load of photos and taking a few good ones out of the batch.

 

[jes1111]

I definitely don't want to get into a scrap over this, but you still don't need to know (by asking here) what other people are charging. As Stacky points out, you may be comparing apples with oranges. And "what the market will bear" is what your clients will pay, relative to the intended usage (duration and medium) of the footage, the commercial value (to them) of that footage, and so on. You speak, quite rightly, of confidence: I can assure that nothing can give you more confidence in your pricing than knowing that you've calculated everything properly. It will come through in your negotiations with clients.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard "but so-and-so only charges half that!". I don't give in! Sure I've lost jobs to other, cheaper photographers - but I know that if I dropped my prices I'd be operating at a loss, so I really am not worried about it all. And many times I get a call from that client once they see what they get for half the money

One of the most important elements in a proper "cost of doing business" calculation is the frequency with which you can complete jobs. My own costings are based on 3 shoots a week. Physically I cannot do more than that whilst maintaining the quality of output I want. Another photographer might charge half what I do and, logically, can therefore only devote half the time to the task. Clients understand that when I explain it to them

I urge you to do the calculation, see how you feel about the result and then consider where to go from there. You'll probably be shocked at how the figure looks, by the way!

 

[jes1111]

Stacky and I were typing at the same time

I should point out that I operate in the high-end of the real estate market here in Portugal. As such I can stay busy (especially in this economic climate, where sellers outnumber buyers). As much as I'd like to be doing 5-day boutique hotel shoots all the time, they only come along once in a blue moon. Stacky operates in a more general commercial market, I believe, and is damned good at it! Heed his words!

I believe that the very high failure rate of new photographers (in whatever field) is down to the fact that very few of them actually know (by having done the CoDB calculation) how much work they'll have to do, and at what rate, in order to achieve the income level they want/need.

Anyway - best of luck!

 

[dckiteboards]

wow thank you for all the thoughts, The only reason im trying to find others prices is to get a idea of where i should be around. havent charged too much yet and im getting better and better results out of the heli and want to upgrade to a bigger unit since i am booking several jobs now. I did the calculator and it was 1500 a day for what i plugged into it, I charge 800 to 1000 a day so plan is to get a little better and raise the rates.
been including the octo in little gigs i get for 500 and i usually takes me a day or two of visiting the site to achieve the desired results. but then im still charging the 1000 a day rate for the ground production! so its working out perfectly. however I do need to bump up the aerials now especially since im shooting with the t2i and hopefully something SIMILIAR to the cinestar. we will see.
thank you again. I think this post needed to come up anyway i search this on google before i posted and there isnt to much in detail what to do.

 

[Borneoben]

Hi Guys

Great thread lots of really useful information.

The CODB calculator is brilliant.

I guess the next big thing to work out is what exactly does the market expect for 1000-1500 dollars per day?

If doing aerial video would teh client expect to have fully processed edited film clips or would you just give them teh raw footage.
Does that day rate include the time it takes for the post processing etc or do you charge that at the same rate?
if we take 1000usd per day as an examble

Do you charge 500 for half a days actual shooting and then 500 per half day processing and editing?
What about other expenses such as travel food accomodation etc.
I guess that all get's charged to the client at cost plus a percentage??

I guess it all depends on who your client is.
If its a real estage agent then i guess you need to do all the processing and editing if its a production company then I guess they would just want the raw footage.

I think i've answered my own question. You charge the same rate for the entire job, shooting and processing.

will keep an eye on this thread with interest.

Cheers

Ben

 

[dckiteboards]

that was my next question. obviously if your capable of advanced editing, animation, you wouldnt charge that. maybe have a basic rate and then a pro rate, depending on what the clients needs or can afford. In my situation I need to charge also for my couple days of ground work as well as a couple days of shooting with the heli.

 

[koolkiwikat]

I believe (very strongly) that you are approaching this problem from the wrong end. Basing your charges on what someone else is charging is just "wrong", on so many levels. IMHO any photographer (stills or video) should calculate the actual "cost of doing business", set an expected (or at least desired) income level and use those figures to work out what you need to charge clients.

Here's an appropriate calculator.

Wow thanks for the link!

Cheers!

Jason